Thursday, August 03, 2006

On Smoking

Its been a month since the smoking ban is enforced in coffee shops etc, and to tell the truth, I have not seen much difference, i.e tables are not clearly marked smoking or non-smoking, and there are people that are still obviously smoking at the non-smoking area. However, there is significantly less number of smokers, and incidently I noticed at the coffee shop near my place, significantly less people drinking as well.

As a 'recovering' drinker and smoke-aholic, I seriously would feel 'incomplete' if I drink and not smoke. At least 90% of the people I know feel the same way, its like they come hand in hand. The coffeeshop's business sure is affected, and I shudder to think what will happen to the nightscene when the ban is extended to pubs and nightspots next year. I'm definately getting out of my pub venture before that happens. Sure, the govt and all the papers will tell you that it will attract more non-smokers to the club etc and in the LONG RUN, business will be better etc, but how are small businesses like ours, already scrapping to get by, see out the long run? If business goes down for more than a couple of months in tandem, cash flow is going to be a serious problem. Rents, payments to suppliers etc still have to be paid, and who is going to help us out? I don't need more non-smokers customers, I just want to keep my regular smokers customers. Can I implement a smoking only club instead? I'm sure I'll be making a ton more money than the ones that don't allow smoking. Just look at all the heavy drinkers and big spenders around you. How many of them are smokers compared to non smokers? I rest my case.

And to rub salt to the wound, I have enough of non-smokers complaining and complaining and urging for a ban on smoking in ALL public places. Give me a break. Give you an inch and you want a yard. Fuck you all. Although I don't really smoke now anymore, it still gets on my nerves how narrow minded some people are, touting their 'rights' to clean air or what ever fuck and attempt to exorcise all smokers. Knn, then don't come out lah, don't drive or stand near road because cars also pollute the air. And make sure you don't fucking fart in public places also else must ban farting liao. Stay in your sterile home.

As if Singapore is not restrictive enough as it is, and in case people tend to forget, smokers are human too and they have their feelings and rights too.


At Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:24:00 pm, Blogger ketsugi said...

Murderers, thieves, paedophiles, embezzlers, and other such ilk are also human, and yes, they too have human rights and deserve to be treated fairly. However, they have also broken the law and should be dealt with according to the law.

When I see smokers NOT smoking at public bus stops and other such clearly demarcated non-smoking zones, when I see smokers NOT blowing their smoke into my face, when I see smokers NOT dropping their cigarette ash and butts wherever they like, when I see smokers NOT spitting all over the place, that's when I will stop clamouring for an outright ban on smoking. Until smokers stop abusing their right to smoke, which I will readily declare that they do and should have, they have no right to accuse non-smokers of pushing any sort of boundaries.

At Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:49:00 pm, Blogger nutcracker said...

I totally agree with you in the 1st paragraph that if one have broken the law, they should be dealt with by the law. But where do we draw the line on where the law stops?

Clearly, murderers, thieves and other behaviors that are a threat to society should be reined in, but would you really place a smoker into such a category?

Smokers have bear the brunt of tax hikes, bans on smoking areas etc, but how often have you really hear them complaining about it, compared to non-smokers that keep pushing for more? What about business owners that have suffered? If a non-smoker does not like the smell of smoke etc, just stay away, let us have a smoking-only pub/club/coffeshop for smokers, and ban all non-smokers. But can we? Why the double standards??

When a non smoker complains that a smoker blows smoke at them, throw cigarette butts etc as a reason to ban them, I personally find it abit harsh. I dun think any smoker would purposely wan to blow smoke at you if he/she can help it. We cant control the direction the wind blows! The case about littering ciggarette butts is simply a case of littering. I often see tissue users simply dump there tissues on the ground after usage, should we ban tissue in public places? No, we fine the litterers, theres a law for that, and the group of people are called litterers, not just smokers. Same thing with spitters, its not an 'exclusive' activity of smokers. Those caught are dealt with in accordance to the law. Why should there be another law just to punish smokers?

At Thursday, August 03, 2006 4:02:00 pm, Blogger shooshies said...

I completely agree with nutcracker.

People who break the laws should definately be punished. But for the smokers who smoke in designated smoking areas, how are they to control the wind direction? Sometimes i intentionally blow my cigarette smoke AWAY from my non-smoking friends, but unfortunately, the wind blows it back at them. Am I to be punished for that?

In that case, can we ban sneezing in public? YOu know, all the germs and viruses flying around from a sneeze is very dangerous? ha.

If the government one day have a complete ban on smoking, then, pls ketsugi, by all means complain all you want about all us "illegal" smokers. But for NOW, as long as smokers are smoking in designated areas, non-smokers, pls don't be unreasonable.

At Thursday, August 03, 2006 4:13:00 pm, Blogger Leonard said...

in singapore, smoker = not human; non-smoker = human.

there's no justice and equality here.

its a good writeup you have here.

anyway, thanks for using the modified kena-tomorrow gif! :)

At Thursday, August 03, 2006 4:49:00 pm, Blogger noelbynature said...

sure, smokers get the short end of the (pardon the pun) stick, but recognise that smoking is just bad for everybody, whether you're a non-smoker or not. not to diss you, shooshies, you may not be able to control where the wind blows, but that doesn't absolve the smoker from responsiblity for emissions from his/her cigarette. and a lot of times, a sneeze is an involuntary reaction as compared to a conscious effort to light up.

At Thursday, August 03, 2006 5:43:00 pm, Blogger eva-braun said...

its just sad to see how all the smokers are outcasted..
why make it such a big deal..
u will die anyway..
whether u smoke or not
its the process of life
its just that some people choose to smoke n some pple dun..why the big fuss abt bannin smoking or wadever? just let other pple live the way they like..if u dun smoke, good for u.. if someone smokes den let them be..there are already rules n regulation to discourage smoking wad...the world will be a better place if we all give and take

At Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:38:00 pm, Blogger yuanz said...

you know why people make such a big fuss over it?

1. the second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe in is known to be more harmful than that inhaled by the smokers themselves.

2. when people smoke, they become more prone to illnesses. in sg, a large proportion of the population have their medical fees subsidised by the govt. and this money is essentially the money of tax payers. making yourself sick isnt your own problem anymore. the whole population is helping you pay for your medical bills while you try to kill yourself.

At Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:21:00 pm, Blogger Lance said...

precisely! this smoking ban is really getting alittle over the limit.

look, seriously instead of limiting the 'smokable' places to just THAT pathetic few, i think it'd be better if you ban cigarretes in Singapore all together.

certain personal contact of mine said that the only reason the govt isnt banning all together, is because just on the fags' tax itself, the govt is already reaping in millions and millions.

thats why!


At Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:19:00 pm, Blogger jaS% said...

"Clearly, murderers, thieves and other behaviors that are a threat to society should be reined in, but would you really place a smoker into such a category?"

yes. the habit of smoking is a threat to the health of non smokers. you cant blame them from complaining because health is such an important issue to others. if u choose to smoke in public places, you will not only harm yourself but others too. please understand that it is very unfair for non smokers to have to breathe in second hand smoke.=)

At Friday, August 04, 2006 12:00:00 am, Blogger ketsugi said...


"But for NOW, as long as smokers are smoking in designated areas, non-smokers, pls don't be unreasonable."

That's part of the point I was making, in my first comment. If I'm in a designated smoking area, and there are smokers around, I can't complain about anything (even if I want to, which may or may not be the case). But my beef is with smokers who clearly think they're outside the law. I've seen people smoking at bus-stops, sitting right in front of a No Smoking sign. I've seen smokers drop their cigarette butts all over the ground. I've seen smokers spit wherever they like. And that's the kind of behaviour that outrages me. What I'm saying is that until this kind of behaviour stops, smokers have absolutely no right to protest against any further laws encroaching on their right to smoke. I am not condemning smokers outright, but you have to see that while smokers persist in this kind of attitude, it's hard to defend their right to smoke.


I have a friend who smokes. He knows I hate the smell of cigarette smoke, and even if I didn't, he knows it's not healthy for me to be inhaling his second-hand smoke. He almost never smokes when I'm around, and if he has to, he always tries to go into another room, and if that doesn't work, he makes sure he's downwind of me before lighting up. He makes every effort not to encroach on my personal space with his smoking, and I fully respect and appreciate that. If more smokers could learn from his example and be more aware of and considerate to the non-smokers around them, then non-smokers will have much less reason to complain.

At Friday, August 04, 2006 12:38:00 am, Blogger nutcracker said...

shooshies: glad u feel the same!

leonard: you designed tat gif file rite? haha, cool! thks!

noelbynature: ok, i buy your argument that a sneeze is an involuntary reaction as compared to a conscious effort to light up. jus curious, is farting then considered involuntary reaction? cos some ppl seem to be able to hold it in you know :P what about tissue litterer? should we ban tissues?

emo-princesz: I like your outlook on life!

redants: as I mentioned, cars pollute the air more than cigarettes, ppl burning incense on a daily basis, do we ban all theses? and "a large proportion of the population have their medical fees subsidised by the govt"?? are you serious on this? been reading too much ST and watching too much CNA isit?

lance: yes, the reason why cigarettes are not banned is cos the govt is reaping obsence amt of profit from taxing it. smokers are real suckers :)

jas%: you are being too extreme! Its not like I can commit murder by smoking you to death! :P and please understand too that it is very unfair to ask smokers not to smoke in places just becos non-smokers want to visit the place. As I said, be fair, please give us the right to have a smoking only pub/club/coffeeshop. I'll be the 1st to set it up.

ketsugi: I can see where you are coming from, I'm one of those 'considerate smokers' too. but more often then not, ppl jus tend to lump ALL smokers into one group that blow smoke at ppl, litter and spit. It hurts me. Its just like there are ugly singaporeans that spit, litter, rude etc but you are not one of them, yet ppl from other countries wanna ban singaporeans cos of their ugly behavior, would you not scream unfair?!

At Friday, August 04, 2006 2:19:00 am, Blogger Zijian said...

Go ahead and ban smoking in Singapore.

Non-smokers, get ready to pay higher income tax, higher COE and GST.

Surely the government needs to recover the loss of income from tobacco tax.


Go ahead. Ban smoking in Singapore.

At Friday, August 04, 2006 9:48:00 am, Blogger Loveless Deejay said...

They (the one above) say they are corcerning over the poor health of the people. banning smoking in places and increasing in price.

How about a ban?

Oooopsss... sorry if you all (the one above) felt a pinch there....

At Friday, August 04, 2006 10:25:00 am, Blogger eva-braun said...

i ask my frens n others whether they mind or not before lighting up
i do not smoke in coffeeshops
i do not purposely blow smoke into peoples fact i try to stand as far away to non smokers as possible..
usualli i smoke while no one is ard me so they wont die soon..even dou i tink everyone will die one day so no diff..

no nid ban smoking..
have a courteous smokers campaign mah
good wad liketat..
ask the smokers be more considerate all tiz..fair n square..
govt got more tax to pay their pple..smokers dun haf to stop smoking and non smokers, we tink of u before we smoke..
and tat singa lion ting oso will haf tings to do n spore maybe can rank higher in the courteous country survey ting..

At Friday, August 04, 2006 10:28:00 am, Blogger spuid said...

Totally agree with you.

At Friday, August 04, 2006 10:57:00 am, Blogger eva-braun said...

in sg, a large proportion of the population have their medical fees subsidised by the govt. and this money is essentially the money of tax payers. making yourself sick isnt your own problem anymore. the whole population is helping you pay for your medical bills while you try to kill yourself.

1. if ur talkin abt medishield.. we pay from our have tat priviledge of getting subsidised..
ur lifetime claim limit is onli $200,000..our money being used for other useless tings too...


At Friday, August 04, 2006 12:50:00 pm, Blogger Minaki Yun said...

Honestly, I LOVE all the ban on smoking. and I thk, the underlying message is, when are u smokers going to stop smoking. And pls dun go around whinning about how ur rights are being undermined, coz they way I see it. Ketsugi is being nice, I personally dun see smokers having ANY rights at all, and they are as close to murderers as can be when they force me to breathe their exhaled smoke.
Too bad the existing law does not cover murder by smoking in pple's faces.
Honestly, the situation is exactly the same except from an opposite perspective. If u feel so miserable as a smoker being ban from smoking in those pubs and coffeshops u mentioned, imagine a non-smoker in the same place with smoke all blowing in his/her face, I can tell u exactly that they feel as miserable or even much more miserable, as smokers tends to think it is their rights, and in some kind of a strange way, ur privilege to breathe his 2nd-handed smoke. That is how arrogant and how selfish most smokers are.

PS: this ban on smoking is one of the reasons I love Singapore. coz I love the direction that they are taking, that it is the smokers who are in the wrong in this situation, and they ought to be stopped.

At Friday, August 04, 2006 12:53:00 pm, Blogger Minaki Yun said...

as for the part about how everyone will eventually die, with or without cancer. Yes, I totally agree with that. BUT, there is also something call "quality life", even if I am dying right now or tomorrow, I sure dun wan to spend my last few hours where my lungs and nose are both still doing their job breathing nicotine and carbon monoxide, even if they did not actively contributed to my accelerated eventual death.

At Friday, August 04, 2006 1:25:00 pm, Blogger nutcracker said...

Minaki Yun: I think I can safely say that you are the type of non-smokers that I hate! :)

While you are ranting on and on about how arrogant and selfish smokers are, you are behaving in the same way, or even worse.

I say once again. Non-smokers want to ban smokers just becos they dun like the smoke. So where can smokers go? Why can't we have a smokers only place where non-smokers are banned?? That way, we get to do what we like and keep the whiners away, everybodys happy right? But while it seems that smokers are happy simply to be able to have a place of their own, to keep away from 'harming' people, its apparently not enough for ppl like you. You want them exterminated just for your own selfish reasons. And please dun tell me you are trying to save their lifes cos I seriously do not think you are so noble. You have your own selfish agenda, just as you accused all smokers to be.

At Friday, August 04, 2006 1:52:00 pm, Blogger Terz said...

It's amazing that most of the posters who support the smoking ban, once you've clicked on their profiles, appear also to be born after 1981. There's a strange puritanical streak that's so prevalent in our kids nowadays, I'm wondering where it comes from (something in the NeWater perhaps?). We wonder about religious fundamentalists in our region and we don't stop and see it in ourselves, in our behaviours, the words we use, to even wonder if we're also becoming fundamentalists in other ways.

Nuts: I'll come to your pub if it's all smoking...

At Friday, August 04, 2006 2:06:00 pm, Blogger eva-braun said...

Which pub is urs? i'll come to ur pub if its only smoking oso...

st0p it oreadi with this smoking ting..whine as much rant as much as u want..if ur still unsatisfied n want fresh pure air live on an island by urself...

At Friday, August 04, 2006 2:06:00 pm, Blogger eva-braun said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At Friday, August 04, 2006 2:15:00 pm, Blogger eva-braun said...

lets talk abt other happy tings..

my sympathies are not going to u smokers or non smokers..even dou i am a smoker... its going to businesses going bust and making loss...just when everything is increasing in price..those hawker centres dun earn so mcuh and now they are realli suffering lor...

lets talk abt other happy not angry issues.. aniwaes go the international plaza to look for a job nutcracker..millions of job agencies thr. juz go to the security counter n ask em for the list..

At Friday, August 04, 2006 7:37:00 pm, Blogger nutcracker said...

I wish I can make my pub a purely smoking one! but the law says I can't so too bad :( In the process of winding it up now, at the same time looking for a more stable job with stable income.. will visit international plaza soon i reckon eva-braun :)

At Saturday, August 05, 2006 2:07:00 am, Blogger King said...

1. the second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe in is known to be more harmful than that inhaled by the smokers themselves.

this does not make much sense to me. 100% chemicals passes thru filter into my mouth. 80% left for my lungs to enjoy, exhaling 40% of remaining chemicals. now how is 2nd hand smoke more harmful than 1st hand smoke?

2. when people smoke, they become more prone to illnesses. in sg, a large proportion of the population have their medical fees subsidised by the govt.

going by the various tax figures from previous years, it can be seen that a rough approximation would be that 70% from the sale of a pack of cigs goes to the government. lets say the average smoker gets cancer at the age of 55, and that the average cost per person for treatment is $80,000. if a smoker smokes on average 1 pack a day, saying he starts smoking at the age of 18, the tax from his cigs alone would be around $95,000. not to mention the fact that most smokers find out they have cancer and DIE. quickly if i might add. taking up less of your precious resources. wait a minute. we'll use LESS than what the government takes from us, giving you the benefit! what a wonderful world.

the government realises that they cannot survive the economic loss of implementing a total ban. whats the point of saying that they are banning it for health reasons and still give smokers a place to smoke? if they are that concerned, ban things totally then. hell. ban alcohol too. how many wife beaters are there? crazed drunks who assault people?

why not ban cars as well? they spew carbon monoxide and various other chemicals as well? or do you think car exhaust is not harmful to you?

i hope all the self-righteous pricks end up with children who are smokers or drug addicts. may your child start your car and use the exhaust pipe as his bong.

btw, smokers don't abuse their right to smoke. in case you haven't realised, if you are in singapore, you have no rights.

At Saturday, August 05, 2006 7:34:00 pm, Blogger Minaki Yun said...

To Nutcracker:

I agree that I am the kind of non-smoker that u hated, but from reading ur post, u are also the type of smokers that I hate. So we are quits. :)

But then, there is a little bit of wrongness that u have assumed of me, and that is actually I totally dun mind that smokers have their own smokers' bar/pub, coz I will definately dun go in there. Rest assume that even if there is a mob going down to tear down ur pub, I will be too lazy to even move from my computer.

Although, I have no wish to exterminate smokers, it is true that I can never understand why they choose to continue ruining their healths and honestly I dun care. U are definately right in saying that I absolutely am not concerned at all about the state of any of the smokers' health out there. And to put it meanly, smokers can stay in the same room and kill each other for all I care.

But, even if u post ur reasons and ur argurements about smokers' rights, as a non-smoker, what I really see out there is that the situation is really more of the smokers' abusing their rights to smoke.

In Singapore, in my own knowledge, we are the only country where the government takes really active measures to stop/curb/ban smokers. In many other countries, non-smokers will just have to bear with it. When smokers abuse their rights, they will just have to stand out in crowded area to smoke, if non-smokers wanted to protect THEIR rights, the only way they have is to rely on the government.

After so many years of smokers' abusing their rights, at the only 1st signs of restraints, the smokers started making all the noises. What about all the years until now and all the number of non-smokers out there who have endured all the smoke and discomfort brought by the smokers until now.

Honestly, I think that without all these regulations and active bans, how many smokers out there can u say with confidence that will smoke in consideration for others, and smoke in other areas that will not affect others, litter the places and burnt public properties with their cigarette butts.

If u can answer with confidence that u thk many smokers will do that, I thk u are being too optimistic. I agreed that they are pple out there who are more considerate than others, but there are really more of them that are not.

And I am not ashamed to say that I am definately not considerate for others. If clean air is what I want, than I won't care whether it is at the expense of smokers' rights.

That is my stand only, as a non-smoker.

At Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:44:00 pm, Blogger King said...

minaki, you should definitely learn that definitely is not spelled as definately if you are going to use it so many times to emphasize your points.

your views show that you might not only be the kind of non-smokers whom smokers might hate, but it also shows that you take a rather narrow view on things, and believe that what you think is best will always be the best option. we can only hope that with further education, your views will broaden and that you will learn how to think in a more mature way.

definitely definitely definitely hope so!


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